Advertisement
Are there people here into Gothic Christian ministries? If so, please speak up and network with me!
Phil
Those Who Mourn
Phil
Those Who Mourn
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 12:16 PMI am a Christian and I perform Goth Belly Dance. I am very into the Crucified Christ and Healing. I have a healing ministry in the Catholic Church. -
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 12:06 PMHi, I run a ministry called TechnoChicks to female geeks, gamers, fans, and goths. We have a wide variety of interests, but generally get the same reaction in churches to who we are and our activities. At lot of people are more forgiving of males with these affinities, then females, in both the Christian and secular communities, so we tend to attract women who have either rejected the idea of church, go but don't fit in, or they pretend to be someone else while at church. I've worked with several gothic ministries and many people in the Christian goth community.
Incidentally, I am taking my first bellydance lesson on Thursday, and have been watching a lot of videos of gothic bellydancers like Tempest. Really interested in that genre and the steampunk genre of dance. -
-
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Wed, January 7, 2009 - 12:15 PMWiki is more extensive than I could be. I suggest reading the last section:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture
This is helpful about Christian goths:
www.christiangoth.com/just.html -
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Wed, January 7, 2009 - 8:21 PMThanks for your reply, if I understand correctly a Goth is a member of a fashion subculture that has a dark preoccupation with death, please correct me if I am wrong. I see two conflicts with being a Christian Goth, for one our God is the God of the living not of the dead. Christianity is the embrace of love! which is life and God! The second conflict is that as Christians we are sanctified from the world. That means that we are seperate from it. We are not goths, preps, geeks, grits, or jocks, neither are we black, white, hispanic or asian. We are simply the Children of God, we seek neither the respect of men nor the disrespect, but rather the righteousness of God. Please understand I am not saying that being a Goth prohibits you from also being a Christian, but rather that your journey as a Christian will eventually lead you away being a Goth, and from any need for social identity. The more you practice love, the more your focus will be on God and truth.God, and your Christians brothers and sisters will not judge you on your clothing and eye makeup but rather in your love and your doctrine. -
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Thu, January 8, 2009 - 4:55 AMI want to preface by saying I myself am not a goth, so I can't pretend to speak for most Christian goths fully. However, most of the Christian goths I know have a very keen understanding of the death and resurrection of Christ as well as a much better concept of the idea of dying to oneself than most of the other Christians I know.
We are products of our culture, whether we want to admit it or not. The early Christians, such as Paul, worked with the local cultures, using their cultural concepts to be a witness. A good example of this is in Acts 17:22 -31, where Paul uses their altar to an 'unknown god' to spread the gospel. He also talks about this principle in 1 Corinthians 9 that he used this principle when he stated " I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some" (v. 22).
If most Christians were honest, they would admit if they didn't fit into a church, they would go somewhere else if they had a choice. 99% of Westernized Christianity is not a culture, not a confession. A core concept in missionary study is the idea that culture is neither good or bad, but missionaries have to go beyond their own culture to reach other cultures. There are numerous books on this issue from a number of different denominations and authors.
Books I recommend:
Transforming Culture: A Challenge for Christian Mission by Sherwood G., Lingenfelter
Breaking Tradition to Accomplish Vision: Training Leaders for a Church-Planting Movement: A Case from India by Paul R. Gupta
Culture Matters: How Values Shape Human Progress by Lawrence E. Harrison -
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Thu, January 8, 2009 - 4:56 AMSorry, made a typo - "99% of Westernized Christianity is a culture, not a confession."
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Thu, January 8, 2009 - 7:49 AMto me the issue comes down to this. What are you conforming to? We are told in Romans 12:2
"2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."
Hudson Taylor was said to have added the dress of the chinese culture and as a result was far more effective in his ministry to their culture. Pauls said "he became all things to all people so that by all means he might save some". But I doubt by this he meant he would stretch his neck out to 3 feet in order to witness to an unusual tribe or pierce and tat every portion of his body.
-
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Thu, January 8, 2009 - 8:49 AMI ask the same thing of you though...what are you conforming to? Is it really 'of God', or is it what your church and culture say is how you are supposed to act and look? American church culture is not how Christianity is defined. How people dress in the church, and how they believe everyone else should act and dress generally has nothing to do with the Bible and everything to do with their culture. Many times it's offensive to even other Christians, and probably rightly so, because it's a lie of what the message of Christ is.
Go back to Romans 2, then chapter 11...Paul is talking about sin...not culture. The Jewish believers condemned the Greek believers for not following the same cultural guidelines as the Jews, and Paul was admonishing them for it. The Jewish Christians were angry that God brought them into the fold.
I also question whether you carefully read what was on that Christian goth site, or just dismissed it because of your preconceptions of what goths are.
-
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Fri, January 9, 2009 - 10:12 PM< I want to preface by saying I myself am not a goth, so I can't pretend to speak for most Christian goths fully. However, most of the Christian goths I know have a very keen understanding of the death and resurrection of Christ as well as a much better concept of the idea of dying to oneself than most of the other Christians I know. >
I am reminded of the verse:
Luk 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
So I agree there is something to what you say. The thing to recognize however is that salvation is journey that begins in the recognition of sin and ends in the embrace of grace and life. Christianity is the hating of this life, the laying down of it, and the rising up in a new life. In the gothic culture I see a focus, perhaps, on the first two parts.
<If most Christians were honest, they would admit if they didn't fit into a church, they would go somewhere else if they had a choice. 99% of Westernized Christianity is not a culture, not a confession. A core concept in missionary study is the idea that culture is neither good or bad, but missionaries have to go beyond their own culture to reach other cultures. There are numerous books on this issue from a number of different denominations and authors.
>
I would say that if 99% of Christians were honest they would admit that they are not Christians at all. As for the idea that culture is neither good nor evil, I disagree, Culture is the set of values and traditions that defines a people. As a Christian we are called to leave behind our culture and accept the culture of Christ. That leads to the question, what is the culture of the Kingdom of God? Does it define your dress, fashion and behavior? I would say that it does define your behavior, but dress and fashion, not so much. Please understand as I have said before I am not rejecting Christian Goths, A Christian is someone who loves God and his neighbor as himself. If you can be a Goth and be filled with love, joy, peace and longsuffering then that is fantastic, but it seems to me that a joyful goth is a bit of an oxymoron. In the end a "Christian Goth" either is not very Gothic, or not very Christian. I state that as a personal opinion and I recognize that you as brother/Sister in Christ may choose to disagree with that. Ultimately Christians have one culture one spirit and are hidden like leaven amongst the grain, until all are leaven.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Gothic ministry?
Wed, January 7, 2009 - 1:50 PMwhat is the point of Christian "goth" ? -
-
Re: What is the point of Christian "goth"?
Thu, January 8, 2009 - 11:39 AMYou might as well ask, "What is the point of Christian preppie? Or Christian country?"
Disclaimer: Like Roswenth, I'm not a real goth, though I enjoy elements of the gothic culture and have goth friends, both Christian and otherwise. I also identified myself as goth for a couple of years in high school, but that was a LONG time ago. :)
A major component of the Gothic subculture is an appreciation of a different aesthetic. Two of the major ones are romantic Edwardian-Victorian styles and techno-industrial styles. This is nothing about either one that is inherently sinful; actually, there are many gothic fashions that are much modest than the current mainstream fashions. (I won't claim that all are, of course.)
There is also nothing that makes mainstream fashion and style more Christian than gothic or other subcultures. Our designation of it as "Christian" is entirely arbitrary, and what we label as Christian is always in a state of flux. In the nineteenth century, after all, no Christian woman would ever be seen uncorsetted! In the fifties, she would never chew gum or attend church without hat and gloves.
Another major component of gothic culture is the ability to see beauty in that which is normally considered dark, dreary, or bleak. A classic romantic-goth example would be a dark, barren, windswept hill. Most would consider it depressing; to the goth, it is a thing of beauty. And it is just as much God's creation as a flower-filled meadow.
As for death, that's one of the most misunderstood elements of gothic culture, I believe. It's true that there's a lot of death-related imagery, such as skulls, gravestones, coffins... But only a few goths (in my experience) really develop an unhealthy fascination with death. The gothic ideal is opposed to a [i]fear[/i] of death. Think about that; most people in more mainstream cultures are quite scared of death, even if they try to hide it. Death is a constant in the universe: everyone and everything will die.* All the things of this world are temporary! (See Revelations, especially chapters 21 and 22)
Goths understand it's all fleeting; gothic Christians go one further, and remember the full Truth: God delivered believers from death."Death has been swallowed up in victory. Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" (1 Corinthians 15:54-55) God wants us to live without fearing death! "Since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death." (Hebrews 2:14,15)
I would never say that the gothic culture is all good, or that it's inherently superior to any other. It's also not for everyone, just like country or preppie fashions and lifestyles aren't for everyone. But it's not inherently evil, and in some respects I think it has something to teach the rest of us. And there's no reason Christians can't be goths.
*Barring divine intercession :) -
-
Re: What is the point of Christian "goth"?
Fri, January 9, 2009 - 10:22 PM<You might as well ask, "What is the point of Christian preppie? Or Christian country?" >
I would ask that as well, are subchristian cultures supported by scripture? I think not. By definition a subculture seeks to exclude. Christians do not exclude or differentiate, we are one, one holy spirit, one God. Does that mean that we don't have different fashion tastes and interests? Different races and origins? No we do, but we gather as one despite our differences. Take two different Christians from opposite sides of the earth and put them together and they will talk and act as one even though they dress and look differently. If you find yourself excuding from your brotherhood others based on the clothes they wear, the music they listen to or any other external factors then you need to consider the authenticity of your Christianity.
-
Re: What is the point of Christian "goth"?
Fri, January 9, 2009 - 10:28 PM<
A major component of the Gothic subculture is an appreciation of a different aesthetic. Two of the major ones are romantic Edwardian-Victorian styles and techno-industrial styles. This is nothing about either one that is inherently sinful; actually, there are many gothic fashions that are much modest than the current mainstream fashions. (I won't claim that all are, of course.) >.
This is the law of the spirit, that you love your neighbor as yourself and even your enemy. if you can do this you are a Christian regards of any fashion or cultural choices.
-
-